tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post3367370850531427245..comments2023-02-12T10:34:53.384-06:00Comments on veganelder: Rights versus 'welfare'.veganelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05188156008589356984noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-87676931267206210862014-08-17T06:18:16.998-05:002014-08-17T06:18:16.998-05:00Thank you for commenting Bea. Ends and means...pot...Thank you for commenting Bea. Ends and means...potatoes and beans...both go together but which is more important can be sometimes confusing. :-)<br /><br />When you find that magic wand (one that works)...please lend it to me. In the meantime, the struggle continues.<br /><br />I really like the TR quote too. Shifting perspectives can be really liberating (and sometimes disorienting). My wife veganelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05188156008589356984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-92205663152794108972014-08-17T06:10:29.376-05:002014-08-17T06:10:29.376-05:00Apologies to Lee and HGV. I haven't responded ...Apologies to Lee and HGV. I haven't responded to your comments because I'm flummoxed as to how to do so. It seems that my post was ambiguous or unclear and I'm having a difficult time getting out of the thicket of unclarity. Hang on...I'll get there...it just might take me some time.<br /><br />Thank you for your patience.veganelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05188156008589356984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-11493318676817578552014-08-09T23:36:35.056-05:002014-08-09T23:36:35.056-05:00I certainly am no tactical genius when it comes to...I certainly am no tactical genius when it comes to what method succeeds or hinders... I've weighed the pros/cons of "welfare" for years and still am on the fence about real "solutions" towards an end liberation goal for nonhumans. But whatever I or other "abolitionists" might think... "Welfare" is an inevitable part of the process... Would that we had Bea Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981537551810309024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-42025678421009660492014-08-04T16:54:49.173-05:002014-08-04T16:54:49.173-05:00Absolutely, going vegan is a transformative journe...Absolutely, going vegan is a transformative journey, and involves a complete shift in comprehension and behaviour. But I like to think that the distance between welfare and rights is shrinking, and that welfare really is a legitimate part of rights.<br /><br />As you say, it may be a difference between stances and tactics, but I for one, am a little tired of the sneering I hear whenever certain (Have Gone Veganhttp://www.havegonevegan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-76253449211449150582014-08-02T23:23:50.057-05:002014-08-02T23:23:50.057-05:00Thank you for taking on valuable debates. I'd ...Thank you for taking on valuable debates. I'd start with the vocabulary in this one. I believe we need to take back the word welfare. There's nothing wrong with the word, or the concept, and as vegans we are not opponents of the welfare, or well-being, of others. What we oppose, I'd submit to you, is entities making handling adjustments and framing them as concern for welfare.Lee Hallhttp://veganplace.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-36286222525387934512014-08-02T19:28:18.805-05:002014-08-02T19:28:18.805-05:00"As ever..." not as every...jeez. sorry...."As ever..." not as every...jeez. sorry. :-)<br /><br />Destructiveness, exploitation and profit are agendas that don't lend themselves to dialoging in pursuit of accuracy and honesty...or truth for that matter. Thanks again.veganelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05188156008589356984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-676749206842363102014-08-02T19:04:45.922-05:002014-08-02T19:04:45.922-05:00I Ike the back/forth, the difficult ideas, etc. I...I Ike the back/forth, the difficult ideas, etc. It's so much better than the complete stupid and literal LITERAL fascism of the big-ag front I follow. No dissent , no thoughtfulness, tons of lies. At least we wrangle with ideas, complexities, positions. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-87544785718057961632014-08-02T18:49:15.872-05:002014-08-02T18:49:15.872-05:00Thank you for commenting DEM. I did a poor job of ...Thank you for commenting DEM. I did a poor job of clarifying that I was writing about end point philosophical/ethical stances...not tactics. As far as I can see anything that decreases suffering is movement in the right direction. I honor and applaud all efforts that are heading that way. My bad for not expressing myself more accurately.<br /><br />As every, you have a marvelous economy and veganelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05188156008589356984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7688566476953748496.post-12440993306433578682014-08-02T10:44:07.313-05:002014-08-02T10:44:07.313-05:00Thoughtful past. Again :) It gets complicated, t...Thoughtful past. Again :) It gets complicated, though, in this crazy world. I can't imagine living without my dog or fighting for pigs from outside the welfarist position (i.e. Just let them move around in the sunshine, then you can eat them you motherfuckers, because I have to meet you in the middle in order to get ANY concession).<br /><br />At least we're always thinking, unlike the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com